SooperLooper Forum

Hello, all...

I play an usually-acoustic, classical instrument, and I'm very new to software looping and MIDI, as well as to Mac OS. And I often do things in the wrong order. One of the first pieces of equipment that I bought was a Roland FC-300, which I would like to control my effects unit (Eventide Eclipse) and a looping program simultaneously. I got it based purely on the number of pedals, perceived flexibility and build quality -- these reasons may sound idiotic, but I needed a quick switching solution for the Eventide for a gig, so I just went for it.

While the Roland's "Standard Mode" program change messages work just fine on the Eventide, both Ableton Live and Sooperlooper (the two loop- capable programs I've tried so far) react strangely. Live only understands "pitchbend" for every program change message, and SL seems to understand "CC 0" no matter what number pedal I press. I'm not very MIDI-literate yet (having difficulty finding simple, beginner's explanations of how MIDI works as a language for controlling things, triggering events ... any suggestions?), and I'm not sure why both Live and SL would understand different kinds of messages from the same pedals used in the same mode ("Standard"), neither of which are the kind this mode is actually supposed to send, as far as I understand (which I may not at all *lol*).

I suspect I'm using the wrong mode (I've read that Live only listens to CC-mode messages from the Roland, not sure about SL).

Would the best solution be to use patch mode and define each patch command from scratch, so I can be sure what's being sent? Or is there a simpler recipe for this?

Is there anyone here who uses the Roland FC-300? -- or better yet, anyone who uses it to control multiple things at once? (such as an effects unit and SL?)

Any input would be much appreciated!

P.S.: I should add that I am scared of "CC Mode", since the ON/OFF-functionality and the limitation to 10 pedals / 2 banks adds a couple more confusing parameters to an already-confusing bundle of concepts which I'm trying to wrap my mind around... :-p

I don't have a FC-300, but I just looked over the manual. I agree with you that the pedal buttons in Standard Mode should only be sending single program change messages. What you can do to troubleshoot it is to install MIDI Monitor http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/ which will let you log the output messages from the device when you hit a pedal. Post them here and we can continue troubleshooting.

Hey,

Thanks for the suggestion ... I'll try it today!

Since I wrote, I've sort of taught myself to write rudimentary patches on the Roland (strictly PC messages; even that is a royal pain in the ***, but at least I can name the pedals that way...) -- SL doesn't seem to be receiving the same numbers that I'm sending, but I've at least managed to match pedal to function by having it "learn" the pedals. Yay! Weirdly, the Eventide (to which I've also patched PC messages, and which Midi map I've supposedly adapted to take my commands for my presets) always understands one number lower than I'm supposedly sending ... the map I'm using does indeed work precisely this way in its default setup ("0-99" matches "1-100"), but since I'm customizing the map (à la "this preset for this PC number"), I don't quite get why it's still off by one...

The monitor program (which I suppose is objective) will hopefully help straighten all this out ... I'll get back to you!

Many thanks,

Chris

So, just taught myself how to do a screenshot on a Mac ... a bit too much confusion at once...

Anyway, this is what the Roland evidently does when you press the left-most of the program change pedals (marked "1/6") when set to the first bank and in Standard mode. You're looking at exactly three simple presses of the same pedal. Note: I didn't do any bank change or anything, I just went and pressed the pedal which I had always assumed would put out a simple "PC 1." But nope ... weird.

I assume SL is looking for a simple "PC#" message rather than all this ... whateveritis...? Or do the two control messages not really matter? Or do two control messages plus a PC message amount so something entirely different??

I'll see what my patches are doing a bit later and get back to you!

Ok, without a further shot or file being necessary, I can also say that what the Roland thinks to be a 1, 2, 3, etc. is understood by SL to be a 0, 1, 2, etc. respectively. Both in Standard Mode and in Patch Mode. The "how do we count" (1-128 or 0-127) thing, I'll assume...

And: Standard Mode includes these "bank select" control messages with 0-values. Patch mode, on the other hand, just sends pure "PC#" messages. So I suppose this is what's confusing to SL in Standard Mode?

When I use the two "CTRL" pedals in patch mode (the manual seems to suggest that I can program these too, but I haven't figured out how to single them out for programming in actual practice, since some patch pedal is always lit and applicable when in Patch Mode), I get this: On = Control - Ch1 - General Purpose 5 127; Off = Control Ch1 General Purpose 5 0 (that's CTRL 1; CTRL 2 is the same thing with 6 instead of 5). I'm wondering why, then, SL shows me "ch1 - cc - 80" (CTRL 1) and "...-81" (CTRL 2) for both "on" and "off." (which, strangely enough, is what Roland's manual tells me it should be sending -- but without "on" or "off"). If I could get it to differentiate between "on" and "off", it would be cool to use the one for Overdub and the other for Mute-Trigger ... but I don't know if that's doable. Hmm...

Hope that's not too much information at once ... the MIDI Monitor program is extremely helpful, in any case -- thanks for making me aware of that!