SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Describe your looping workflow

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ToBeJazz
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:42 pm

SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by ToBeJazz »

Hi,

I'm new to SL and have a question about if it's possible to use SL with the features that the Electro Harmonix 16 second delay has, meaning that one can have the loop to function as a delay box with (=only one repeat) and with the delay speeded up (or slowed down) and/or reversed.

thanks,
Tobias
jesse
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by jesse »

Yes, use the 'delay' command, which is a tap based delay, you set the delay time as the interval between tapping the delay command. If you set the feedback to 0% you'll get one repeat, and you can use the 'rate' control to change the speed of the "tape" and also reverse should work. To get out of delay mode, just hit undo,record, or mute.

However, currently it does not follow any tempo syncing like the rest of the software does. I should really allow the delay time to be defined based on a sync source... I'll put that on the feature TODO list.
ToBeJazz
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by ToBeJazz »

Hi Jesse,

and thanks for your reply.
I've tried it quickly just now and it works, to certain degree.

But, if I have Reverse on while playing into the "Delay" (like you're specifying in your reply above), the delay is not reversed until I press it again (turn it "off").
Same with Rate control - I need to change the parameters to move them from default I guess one could say to get the modification going.
Is this on purpose?
I would rather have it work like if I have Reversed on, the delay will come back Reversed - same with Rate.

Another thing: I've tried to read about the Pitch and Stretch parameters, but I can't find any info about them in your Documentation online.
I had a hard time figuring out how they worked together with Rate and Reverse.

thanks,
Tobias
ToBeJazz
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by ToBeJazz »

Forgot the mention that the same happends when Overdub a second cycle in the same loop (=Reverse & Rate are not ON although they are "red")...
jesse
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by jesse »

Think of SL's reverse as changing the direction of the "tape" and the play head and record head are in the same place. So if you have feedback set to 0, or replacing, you'll hear the original audio reversed the first time around -- but it will have been recording your new audio in the same direction as the playback -- so after that it will sound normal. Until you reverse again manually. It isn't trying to be a so-called 'reverse delay' where the playhead and record heads are moving in the opposite direction from each other. It is basically a tape-like delay. Same logic involved when changing the rate, you get the affect at first, where the playback rate differs from the rate when the audio was recorded, but once steady state is reached and you've recorded over all your old stuff (no feedback) it will sound normal.

If you turn the feedback up, you'll better appreciate the kind of stuff SL is designed for, where you keep hearing what you did in the past, reversed, rate-f*cked, etc.
jesse
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by jesse »

ToBeJazz wrote: Another thing: I've tried to read about the Pitch and Stretch parameters, but I can't find any info about them in your Documentation online.
I had a hard time figuring out how they worked together with Rate and Reverse.
Sorry about that, really need to update the docs. Basically, you cannot use Rate or Reverse in combination with Pitch/Stretch. Pitch and stretch let you change the speed of the audio and keep the pitch independent. Rate changes both speed and pitch together. The other limitation is that Stretch/Pitch can only be used in loop playback, not during record/overdub, etc.

They are kind of CPU hogs too, as you might have noticed.
ToBeJazz
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by ToBeJazz »

jesse wrote:Think of SL's reverse as changing the direction of the "tape" and the play head and record head are in the same place. So if you have feedback set to 0, or replacing, you'll hear the original audio reversed the first time around -- but it will have been recording your new audio in the same direction as the playback -- so after that it will sound normal. Until you reverse again manually. It isn't trying to be a so-called 'reverse delay' where the playhead and record heads are moving in the opposite direction from each other. It is basically a tape-like delay. Same logic involved when changing the rate, you get the affect at first, where the playback rate differs from the rate when the audio was recorded, but once steady state is reached and you've recorded over all your old stuff (no feedback) it will sound normal.

If you turn the feedback up, you'll better appreciate the kind of stuff SL is designed for, where you keep hearing what you did in the past, reversed, rate-f*cked, etc.
OK, I understand the concept of how it works.
For me it's a pity to have only one option here though because I would really like the possibility to have something in Reverse or changed Rate-vise without the need to do any pressing/changing, often I want to hear the loop in Reverse and Rate-changed from the start. Everything that can reduce any button pressing should be considered I think.
Also, if for some reason the Rate control is at 2x when you record your loop, it's harder get it to be at double speed from there, and having many loops in one instance with different Reverse and Rate control settings when you record a loop cycle would really mess everything up.

From a programming standpoint wouldn't it be easy to implement the second alternative that I'm suggesting?

Not to forget, I want to say a big THANK YOU about your software here - I have a very good feeling about this product and the possibilities to integrate it in my musical activities.


best from Tobias
jesse
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by jesse »

ToBeJazz wrote: For me it's a pity to have only one option here though because I would really like the possibility to have something in Reverse or changed Rate-vise without the need to do any pressing/changing, often I want to hear the loop in Reverse and Rate-changed from the start. Everything that can reduce any button pressing should be considered I think.
Also, if for some reason the Rate control is at 2x when you record your loop, it's harder get it to be at double speed from there, and having many loops in one instance with different Reverse and Rate control settings when you record a loop cycle would really mess everything up.
I think I might be missing something. Can you explain what you are really trying to accomplish without mentioning any SL features? Maybe a step by step example?

By "from the start", what do you mean? Are you loading the loop from a file instead of recording it in SL? Or do you mean record something in realtime, then finish the record and it instantly goes 2x playback? I just need some concrete examples to determine if SL can or can't do what you want, or we just have a terminology mismatch.
ToBeJazz
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by ToBeJazz »

I think I understand you correct when you talk about "Think of SL's reverse as changing the direction of the "tape"".
How it is now is that you'll need to press the Rev button after recording your loop to hear it in Reverse regardless of if it's red/active or not - right?

Here's what I want to do:
Open SL and, press the Rev button to make red/active and then Record my loop and have it sound in Reverse "from the start".
Concerning Rate, I would also like the Rate control to work the same - to press the "2x" button before recording my loop, then after finshing recording have it sound 2x/at double speed.

...Tobias
jesse
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by jesse »

ToBeJazz wrote:I think I understand you correct when you talk about "Think of SL's reverse as changing the direction of the "tape"".
How it is now is that you'll need to press the Rev button after recording your loop to hear it in Reverse regardless of if it's red/active or not - right?
That is correct, but see below.
ToBeJazz wrote: Here's what I want to do:
Open SL and, press the Rev button to make red/active and then Record my loop and have it sound in Reverse "from the start".
It is easy to do this in SL, you just use a slightly different, more flexible command-based approach:
- Open SL, don't touch reverse yet.
- Hit Record to start recording, instead of finishing the loop with another Record, hit Reverse instead. Voila. You can end record with almost any of the other commands to immediately go into that state.
ToBeJazz wrote: Concerning Rate, I would also like the Rate control to work the same - to press the "2x" button before recording my loop, then after finshing recording have it sound 2x/at double speed.
To do this, I admit you'll have to get a little tricky with MIDI bindings. You can make two bindings that use the same midi event, so you'd make one that binds to record, and another that binds to setting the rate to 2. When you are recording, you would use your normal Record to start, but if you wanted this loop to immediately go 2x, you would use your new "double-bound" event to finish.
To bind the one that sets the rate, you have to go into the Preferences->MIDI Binding, and set the Targ Range values for your bindings to rate to both have the value "2". Then any event that you recv for that binding will force the rate to 2. You'll probably want to make another one that forces it back to 1.
ToBeJazz
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Re: SL like Electro Harmonix 16 second delay?

Post by ToBeJazz »

Jesse, thanks for you reply.

My plan is to integrate SL into my live setup - I will use MIDI foot switches (of a Roland FC-200) to control it.
One of my three SL instances will have 4 loops in it. The first one should be non-reverse and at 1x Rate. The second: Reverse and 1x Rate. The third: Reverse and 2x Rate. The forth: non-reversed and 1/2x Rate.

The far best way for me would be to set up this instance of SL on beforehand with the right Reverse and Rate settings for each loop. Then I would just be able to press Record for each loop and everything would be easy.

What I'm trying to say here is that if I can't prepare the right Reverse and Rate settings per loop on beforehand and instead have to think about doing extra foot switch presses, the whole situation would be far more complicated and messy than what it could be. Also, it would be bad if I needed one foot switch to start recording and another one to stop it (if I want to change Reverse and/or Rate as well, double-bounding) - I would soon run of foot switches.

So, I'm still crying for a second alternative concerning Reverse and Rate, so that I could prepare on beforehand how I want my loop to behave.
Maybe it could be a global setting. By default it could be off, and SL would function just like it does now, but with an extra alternative that, at least for me, would really improve its usability.

...Tobias


P.S. I'm planning to have one Foot Switch per loop - the first one would start and stop recording on the first loop, the second one start and stop recording on the second loop etc.
Would it instead be possible to have it behave like this:
I use one Foot Switch to start Recording on my first loop, then press the same foot switch to stop recording. Next time I press the same foot switch the second loop would start recording, then stop the recording with the same foot switch, and so on. In this way I would need only one foot switch to record on the loops instead of having 4 foot switches.
A big part of having everything work smoothly in a live setting is that I can do everything with foot switches - I'm playing guitar and want my hands to be free.
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