Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Using SL inside Apple's MainStage

Moderator: jesse

Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Stavros »

1- no biggie

2- all prev functions were not working

3- Ahhh...so it is rocket science!
Even as it is right now its better than nothing, just not ideal.

5- ...like opening a can of worms no doubt...:)
rel sync is VERY cool feature!

6-Prev/Next variations of Record_or_Overdub Exclusive commands....... Absolutely...Please!

Re: Single Multi function Button...HAH!..thats a hoot..I was hesitant to ask since your doing so much already.
Great that your exploring it already. I dont know how familiar you are with mainstage GUI
There is a momentary type option but that changes the way the record works too..
If I select the momentary function then SL records as long as I hold the button down.Then it does the same for overdub. Cant seem to get any undo happening even in momentary mode. Sorry Im not very technical.

Check out the pics of GUI I attached..they might be helpful.

RE: press and Hold

found this in a forum, heres a link and excerpt
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jsp ... ID=1959737

A momentary button for MainStage just means: this button sends different values for down AND up. This is good!

This allows you to use this button in two ways: as a temporary switch (as long as it is pressed, do this) or as a toggle (every time, I press it, trigger this). But this done in Edit mode via the momentary checkbox there.

If the button would be a single value or a toggle value, it would only send a value on down, but NOT on up. This doesn't allow the momentary behavior, because the hardware doesn't support it.
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jesse
Posts: 554
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:46 am
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Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by jesse »

Alright, I added and fixed the following:

- exclusive record commands now select whatever loop they are applied to
- fixed relative sync issue when doing exclusive record ops
- fixed _prev issue
- added record_or_overdub_excl* commands
- added optional press/release logic to commands in AU. look for a new toggle parameter called "Press/release for commands" and
turn it on. Then try out mainstage's press/release button bindings, and set press to be 1, and release to be 0. Let me know.
- realizing it was too easy, I also added double tap for the record_or_overdub* which does an UNDO.

http://essej.net/sooperlooper/SooperLoo ... 4test5.dmg
Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Fixes

Post by Stavros »

Hey Jesse
FANTASTIC! Great Job!@#$%

All the fixes appear to be working. Prev works, Sel works, Rel Sync works! Awsome.Its a whole new world I tell ya!!!

Still a one cycle pause after the first cycle when using Rec exclusives.Not a problem.

REALLY GREAT IDEA!!!! but I cant seem to get the double click for UNDO working?

RE: UNDO...mystery
If I press Undo after a single loop cycle recording...it clears the loop and stops playing(good)
If HOWEVER theres more than one action ...an overdub for example...the Undo behaves differently...
undoes the secondary actions but will not go all the way back to clear the loop.(bad)
Is it designed that way or is it an bug? Would make sense to be able to clear initial recording?

Finally
Forgive my ignorance but What is the purpose of the press/release logic command? What does it do?How would it be used?
I see it in the bindings...turned it on but nothing changes.
Button TYpe is set to press/release but
The button on/Button off options remain greyed out in mainstage mapping window... regardless if momentary is selected.
Can you clarify this...how would it change button behaviour?

These new FEATURES really add alot of new potential to working with SL.
MUCH GRATITUDE
Now get some SLEEP FOR GODS SAKE....:)
jesse
Posts: 554
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:46 am
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Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by jesse »

Re your UNDO mystery... yes, it used to be like you expected... but several people suggested that it should not go all the way back to the cleared state once you commit to a loop. It annoyed them when they didn't know how many levels of undo were left and all of a sudden everything went silent. undo_all (or a long-press of undo) always does a clear. So when you have the ability to bind press/release (eg with midi note messages) you have more power.

I don't know what mainstage is doing with regard to button logic. I wonder if the parameter has to be a certain unit or min/max range for it to work right. The intention of my "Press/release command" parameter is to make SL use internal down/up when the value is 1/0, vs its prior operation of using the 'hit' whenever any change event comes in. I could not easily test this here, as I don't have a host that actually lets me deal with it in the form of a button.

As for your double-tap undo on the record_or_overdub* commands... I realized it will only work when the "Press/release command" is on. Will fix that.
Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Stavros »

Hey there Jesse
Check out my first crack at a functional mainstage interface for SL.
I want the flexibility of affecting loops directly or with the Prev/Next commands.
Heres an 8 loop setup with individual REC/Solo/Mute/FB/Level/Pos
9th strip is a master Level/Feedback
and a common set of commands accross the top for the Selected loop and a nice big fat dial display for current Loop POS.
Mirrors the little Korg Nano Kontrol nicley. Has 4 scene to expand on functions. Its a beautiful thing.


Ive always imagined SL as a single loop interface adressing multiple loops in parallel or in sequence.
The interface then reflects the state of the active loop. This aint quite it but its a start.
It actually makes me appreciate how difficult is is to organise all this data in an elegant manner...
SL does a good job of this!


Re:Undo behaviour....If the hold is not possible from mainstage....Hows about adding double click to CLEAR the loop?

THe new Exclusive commands make it alot easier to work in a linear fashion....CUDO's!

The Rate/Pitch/Stretch/Scratch is fun but can get outta hand pretty quickly.
I have created reset buttons and they work fine. Is it possible to create a single command to reset all of them at once?

YOWSAH!@#$%^&
SL with mainstage ROCKS
Thank you
:)
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jesse
Posts: 554
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Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by jesse »

Very nice! I think I should take some interface ideas from you here!

I take it you are a keyboard player? Since I play stringed instruments my mindset for controllers is always foot-based.....
How do you have those buttons actually mapped to the Nano? Especially the top row in the UI.....

A reset rate/pitch/stretch command is a good idea. I can't imagine how your CPU would hold up if you tried to pitch/stretch on too many loops at once, it isn't too efficient.

It would be great if you ended up posting the description of your setup and screenshots to the Looper's Delight mailing list, if you are on it. Some good words go far. But wait until my next official public release that actually has the new features you are using in it.
Ecchi
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:35 am

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Ecchi »

That looks really nice!

As Jesse just said, could you tell us how you mapped your buttons? I'm really interested on how you mapped the "Selected Loop" buttons. Does the right one illuminate when you switch loops? I woulde really like to see which loop is selected when I, for example, use my footcontroller to select next or previous loop.

I'm using a digital piano, electric guitar and MPD32 for some drums. Right now I'm using a FCB1010 to control SooperLooper but I've got some spare buttons on the MPD32 to play around with so I'm definitely going to use some of your ideas for a nice interface!

Maybe you could post an export/empty concert or something like it so we can use your layout as a reference for our very own interfaces?
Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Stavros »

Hey Guys
Glad you find this interesting...
Im still trying to figure out the best setup and mapping
8 tracks is actually overkill...Ill probably use 4 for SL and 4 for vocal,guit,keys and percussion.

I have an fcb1010 that I want to use alongside the NANO kontrol
I love playing with the nano while just doing vocal stuff (imogen heap)...
Its going to take me a while to figure out the best approach
beauty of it is....in mainstage its just another template...no big deal.

Right now Im using Scene 1 channel btns on kontrol for Rec and Sel, Level slider and feedback Rot....
switch to Scene 2 for solo and mute on same channel.Rate slider and Gain Rot. I wish the scene had an A/B switch on kontrol
Ive just mapped the limited transport to the few functions I use most...thats why mutli finction bindings are so cool.
Ill post more info as I figure it out.

To answer your question about mainstage showing which loop is selected...
YES!YES YES it highlights the selected loop(and deselects the others...marvelous..HOw does it know...:)

Anyway....Im attaching the mainstage concert file...if anyone wants to play with it.
Its pretty easy to create from scratch so its no big deal.
This is just a single audio track feeding into SL on a bus.
When I get myself together there will be a guitar,keyboard and drum track feeding into SL as well.

Hey Jesse...if theres anything I can help you out with regarding GUI..just say the word!
I work as a 3d illustrator so if you need any kind of sexy graphics...done!

Heres the concert file and some pics

Cheers
Stav
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Ecchi
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:35 am

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Ecchi »

Hey Stavros, thanks for the concert file! I used it last night to see how you got the selected loop buttons working. Wasn't too hard :lol:

I started building my own interface and I'll sure post some pics tonight when I can get to it again!

I'm also using a FCB1010 to control SooperLooper (among others). Did you get the Uno upgrade? I did and I'm using stompbox mode to control (mainly) guitar effects in Mainstage so I've only got 5 buttons left per bank to control SooperLooper.
Right now I'm building an layout that has 5 dedicated buttons per SL track. I'll set up 1 bank per SL track and 1 other bank to control 5 buttons for selected tracks. I use my MPD32s faders to control the main out per track and the buttons to select different tracks! It's great!

I've got one question though. Is it possible to have some controls from SL listen to Program Changes messages? (probably a Mainstage issue!)

I just can't get my buttons to "learn" Program Changes!

I use the MPD32s drum pads to make a beat and would, offcourse, like to loop that beat. Now I would like to set up 2 pads to control some functions in SooperLooper (record and overdub) instead of playing notes. But I can only program them to send Program Changes and unfortunately no Control Changes. I couldn't get it to work yesterday. I guess this is a Mainstage issue and not SL but since you're using Mainstage as well you might be able to help!
It would be great if I could it get to work because I also have two footpedals (simple sustain pedals) hooked up to the MPD32 to control two drum pads. I use these to control the same two drum pads (that control record and overdub) so I can put those right next to my digital pianos sustain pedal. That would mean that for each instrument I have two dedicated buttons to control my most import functions! Pads right in the same spot where I play my beat, pedals right beneath my feet when I play the piano and a footcontrolboard when I'm playing my guitar!!!
Ecchi
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:35 am

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Ecchi »

So... Here it is! My first shot at a decent interface.

On the left are loops 1 to 4. Button on the left is selected loop. The bar and dial are loop position and the 5 buttons under the loop position bar are mapped to 5 buttons on my FCB1010 (different bank for every track). On the right are 5 buttons for a fifth bank on my FCB1010 that are controls for the selected track.

On the right I left some space for other faders and some knobs I have left on my MPD32 and on the bottom I left room for 5 stompboxes that are going to control the effects from the Pedal plugin.

Normally I also put a piano and drum pads on my screen but they dont really help with anything when your playing your keys or pads so I left that out to save space for the importent stuff!

What do you think?
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My first shot at a usable looper layout!
My first shot at a usable looper layout!
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Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Stavros »

Hey there Ecchi
Nice graphic..
I actually prefer the horizontal bars...they seem more natural
gives a nice sense of whats happening relative to each other.
The dials seem redundant...I like to play with feedback so I think I wouild use them for that or level indicator
all a matter of preference I guess....tooooo many possibilities!

The nice thing about using banck on the fcb is the visual feedback on the display
but I prefer just to have 4 pedals in the top row to access directly.
Truth be told I rarley use anything other than, rec/overd/mutliply/solo/undo
and the loop selection of course. Anything more complicated and Ill probably use the nano kontrol.
Besides thats way more than you get on any hardware pedal!

So youve inspired me to pull out the fcb1010....Im frustrated though...its doing wierd things!
It seems like there are 2 different sets of messages being sent.First click does one thing, then secondclick does something unpredictable.
Wierd things start happening. Do you know whats going on?
What kind of messages should it be sending...note/prog/control?
Is there a way to turn off the second message being sent?

Im on a mac...downloaded a very cool editor called IFCB...dont really know what to do whith it though.
Whats the ideal setup...what am I shooting for?

ny help would be appreciated

Thanks kindly
S
Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Stavros »

Heres some screen grabs of the IFCB editor for mac....
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Ecchi
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:35 am

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Ecchi »

Hey Stavros,

I'm also on Mac but that might be quite obvious since we're both using Mainstage! ;)

The FCB1010 really is a bitch when it comes to programming. Ever tried to program it without an editor? Don't!

Unfortunately I can not use the Mac editor since I have "upgraded" my FCB1010 with another chip! It's called the UNO upgrade and you should really check it out. The main thing I needed the chip for is that it's the only way to really get stompbox controls which I use to control guitar effects. When you press a pedal it sends, as you already noticed, a message on press down and another on release. Because of this there is really no way to control on/off effects. The UNO chip gives you the opportunity to select 5 pedals (no more, no less) on the upper or lower row of predals to give real stompbox control. What it does is send an "on" message when you press the first time and an "off" message on the second time you press the pedal! (so no messages on release).

These five stompboxes are activated (when turned on) on every bank so that leaves you with only 5 pedals to send other messages per bank. To compensate this you get 19 banks instead of 10 with the normal chip.

There is an editor which works (only) with the UNO upgrade. You can not use the other editors because they don't let you control the stompboxes.

The pro on this editor is that it's free, but there is a con too... It's Windows only. Now, I got 4 Macs at home but not a single Windows computer so I used VMware to run Windows on my iMac.

To answer one of your questions, I set up the pedals I use to control SooperLooper to send Control Changes. It doesn't seem to work with Program Changes. I'm not really sure, but I guess I have set the pedals to only send a value on press and not on release.

If you want to check out the FCB1010 UNO chip:

I bought mine here: http://www.ossandust.be/ but I'm sure you can find other places with a simple Google search.

This site provides all the tutorials and software you need to use the UNO chip: http://www.voes.be/fcb1010/howto.htm

BTW, swapping the old for the new chip is really easy. Just open the FCB (how many screws can you use?!), take out the old chip and press in the new! Put the screws back and you're ready to go!
ghostly
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:38 am

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by ghostly »

A bit off topic but since you are talking about the FCB1010:

I just got my FCB1010 last night and I was a bit apprehensive about programming the thing given everything I read online. The reality...? A doddle. Sure you've got to spend a bit of time going through each patch programming what you want in, but if you are methodical you can set everything up in no time at all. I have found that the easiest thing for SL is to set it up your midi bindings to receive midi note on messages and get your pedal to transmit the same message for each command you require.

Not used it for Mainstage yet (still messing about with Logic at the moment) but with Guitar Rig it worked as a stompbox like a treat, and I am not using Uno. I am using the same midi note method and can switch components on and off on GR with a single foot press. Must say I can't get my head round why I would ever need Uno, although the LED on/off for each stompbox would be useful.
Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

FCB frustrations

Post by Stavros »

Cab somebody help me with this.....
FCB is driving me nuts!
Pedal sends 2 alternating messages. A note on/off on the first click....and CC on the second click.
I have an editor Im using called ifcb .Im under the impression you can just turn the cc messages off in my editor...but they still get sent.
Does anyone know what might be going on.

Little Korg nano works like a dream!

UUUgh

makes me want to SHUT IT ALLLLL DOWN and go play acoustic guitar!

:)
ghostly
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:38 am

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by ghostly »

Sending alternating messages through the fcb can only be done with the UNO chip - have you got this installed? Perhaps ask the yahoo fcb group - they are really helpful over there.
Stavros
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by Stavros »

No I do not have the uno chip installed!

First click send a note message
second click sends a cc

The editing software ifcb appears to be working ( you can see the control panel in the previous post pic)
indicates it is sending a note message.

is there something in mainstage that filters midid out?
aspersemusic
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:42 am

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by aspersemusic »

It seems this thread got hijacked a bit, but back to the original subject matter.

I was hoping to test the new version my self, as displaying all that info on my Mainstage window would allow me to remove my (Alt-Tab)- simulator (using MidiStroke and fcb1010.
Awesome stuff jesse, thanks for making changes for us all, i remember when there wasn't a way to go select previous/next! You fixed it (i felt like just for me).

After my next show I'm gonna finally donate to you, as inspiration to get a new public release out!

Are there issues with the 1/2 or double speed features that are similar to those of the pitch/ scratch feature?


(asperse)
http://www.ilike.com/artists/asperse
jesse
Posts: 554
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Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by jesse »

The rate changes (which change both speed and pitch together) are not CPU hogs like stretch/pitch are, if that is what you were referring to.
redbrooklyn
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:18 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Mainstage 2 and SL.....Sweeeeeet!

Post by redbrooklyn »

Hey All,
Looks like I'm getting to this party a little late, but I'm still exited about it.
Thanks all for the info everybody, and nice work Jesse!
I've been using Mainstage for awhile, but just now getting to the Sooperlooper AU after trying some other loopers.

I'm using the SL v1.6.14 release as AU... I saw a link to a SL x.x.16 release in the forum here, is that an usable AU?



-R
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